• http://www.digitaltroubador.com/minimalism/ Minimalism | Digital Troubador

    [...] Some good and interesting thoughts on the whole minimalism movement happening in some corners of the web these days by the ever thoughtful David Pierce at digitizd.com. [...]

  • cadastrad

    I agree.
    The whole “my wallpaper is plain white and I have no dock at all therefore I'm awesome” is like those workspace pictures that look totally cool but are unworkable environments. Minimalism is supposed to be having just the right amount of things to do whatever you do, right? So if you are a painter, maybe having 10 different types of brushes and 20 tubes of acrylic siting on your workspace is as minimalistic as you can get.
    See how other people organize their workspace, but stick with what it works for you.

  • Tortoise Monk

    Well said, David.

  • http://miriammogilevsky.wordpress.com sondosia

    Great post! I hadn't really thought about this until I started reading, but once I did, I realized how right you are. There definitely IS a stigma against software like Microsoft Office, but frankly, I use it every single day because I need a lot of those features. Ditto for Adobe CS4 and iTunes, other applications that get bashed by so-called “minimalists.”

    I try to hide buttons that I don't use so that they're not in the way, but aside from that, I don't think anything needs to change. Minimalism is what you make of it.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    Exactly! Those pictures look nice, but I can't imagine they're at all helpful in actually getting things done. Love the painter example, by the way – sometimes you just need a lot of tools, and it's actually better for them to have all those tools available to them. Great thought, thanks!

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    I totally agree! I use Word for, like, 99% of my writing, and most people I know who think they're “minimalist” are ashamed of me. It's ridiculous. “Minimalism is what you make it” – I like that.

  • http://collegethrive.com/ Dan Northern

    I get where you are coming from from a technology angle, but minimalism in other parts of your life is very important. In America and other industrialized nations, we consume far too many resources.

    Also don't you think it would be better for people to show off how little stuff they own, rather than showing off the new imported leather couch they have. The wealthy seem to be in competition with each other far more than minimalist do, anyway.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    That's a really excellent point, and you're exactly right. If we're competing, it's definitely better to compete for less than to compete for more. But shouldn't we just not compete? What works for me doesn't work for you, and vice-versa, and that's how it's supposed to be!

    And to your first point: yes, we do consume too many resources. But my point is that while there's a lot worth cutting, cutting more for the sake of cutting more isn't useful either. I'll certainly grant some exceptions (carbon emissions come to mind), but for the most part, it seems like the solution should be to find the right balance, not see how low we can go.

  • kenjicrosland

    Wow…this has got to be the best article I've read all week. I consider myself a minimalist so I hadn't really picked up on the whole “lessism” trend. I must say that the whole, “throw things away” or “do more with less” mantras being repeated ad-nauseum and being horribly misapplied annoyed me at a subconscious level, I never really noticed it.

    That said, I'd love to hear Leo's rebuttal. He should do it in haiku.

  • http://twitter.com/corey_nagle Corey Nagle

    You really hit the nail on the head with this one! No, I don't like clutter, but I also don't like being non-functional because I don't have the tools I need/want/like readily available. Sure less is more, but sometimes less is just less.

  • bookchook

    I can but concur.

  • Dan

    I knw wht y mn…”Im so mnmlst I hrdly evr use vwls.” I started out really enjoying these sites but lately it has gotten to be too much. Of course, this week's flavor is getting rid of your car…

  • http://collegethrive.com/ Dan Northern

    That is true, I'm definitely not the type to compete with these types of things, but there are people that do for sure.

    Also true, finding the right balance is most important.

  • http://twitter.com/corey_nagle Corey Nagle

    Pretty soon people are going to start blogging by message in a bottle… “If you find this, plz type and post to interwebz…”

  • http://ndrw.me AndrewNoNumbers

    I totally agree with this, but it's ironic since you are writing from a Mac person point of view. Let me tell you, Apple is completely overdone with minimalism.

    Look at MacBooks. See that frontal edge where your wrists go? It's a 90 degree angle. Why? To have one less curve to look at. Why it shouldn't be there? RSI.

    Look at iPod Nanos. Why does it have to be a perfectly cut piece of hollow aluminum? To look good. Why it should be smooth? The sharp edges on the top and bottom feel terrible in your hands.

    Look at iWeb. Why does it not let you edit HTML? To help noobs. Why it should? Now, only noobs can use it because there's absolutely no way to customize things except by using the limited number of supplied templates.

    Look at MacBook Airs. Why do they not have proper video out? To look thin. Why does it even need to be so thin? It doesn't.

  • Brandon Snow

    Shouldn't we striving to have have just enough, and not burdened by too much, of what brings happiness into our life?

    Mixing minimalism and anti-consumerism is dangerous.

    Someone might really and truly enjoy the craftsmanship of that imported couch or that sleek new mac keyboard. The idea of minimalism is to know and focus on what positively impacts your life and cut-out or minimize any other factors.

  • Brandon Snow

    People are buying the Apple “Experience” largely and the social prestige. That's not to say that they don't have a good product usually. But it is a corporately defined end-user experience.

    Tough, if you don't like it. But a lot of people do.

  • http://ndrw.me AndrewNoNumbers

    Yeah I'm not bashing Apple at all. I'm just saying that most consumers are drawn to Apple due to its form but don't consider its lackluster function.

  • http://mnmal.tumblr.com/ uri

    Fantastic. You made a very valid point.

  • http://twitter.com/Mneiae Caroline L

    I absolutely agree. You, Simplified talked about this a while back: http://www.yousimplified.net/2010/01/21/on-ego-….

    Minimalism is more of a tool and less of an end within itself. I don't want to boast about how I only have 2 things…it's not something that would make me happy. If I could do what I wanted, unconstrained by Stuff, that would be enough for me. Thank you for writing about this topic, as my ideas about minimalism are nascent.

  • http://zenhabits.net/ Leo Babauta

    Good points, & I agree. I've tried to make this point from the beginning of mnmlist — see the FAQs for one example: http://mnmlist.com/minimalist-faqs/. If people are reading my site in any other way, I need to communicate better.

    One problem, though, is that as minimalists communicate their efforts to reduce, others take this as a sign of competitiveness. They take it as an affront to what they own. In my case, that's not the point at all: I'm trying to show it can be done, to show how to do it, to challenge the norm, and to inspire. I hope that happens at least some of the time.

    Btw, mnmlist's feed and archives are available at the top of the homepage: http://mnmlist.com. There's nothing to do than read the content because I don't want you to do anything other than read the content.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    Really, really good point, Leo. You're absolutely right about minimalism being taken as an affront to what people own – so much of the content of those sites is about what it can do for you, if it makes sense. BTW, I blame you for this only in the sense that your correct thinking about minimalism got so popular people warped it.

    But my point about mnmlist.com is that, to me, it teeters the edge between minimally designed and minimally useful. It's not to say that the content isn't great, because it is. I also think the focus on the content is important, and I've always been inspired by how you do that, particularly on Zen Habits. But there's a fine line between focusing on the content and making the content tough to interact with. If I want to subscribe to a site, I typically don't look in the header for the link. Searching, which again is doable on the site, isn't especially intuitive.

    Whether it's a blog's design, or the furniture I have in my apartment, minimalism to me seems to be about optimizing the stuff that matters, and getting rid of the stuff that doesn't. To me, and this may well be unique to me, mnmlist.com goes a little bit toward throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    That said, I love using you as an example of how to do it right, because I think what you do incredibly well is model what you talk about without judging others. It's hard to share your own experience without coming across as holier-than-thou, and you do a fantastic job of that. Others aren't always so successful, and that makes me sad.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    NAILED it. “If I could do what I wanted, unconstrained by Stuff, that would be enough for me.” I should have had you write this post, that's perfect! Minimalism is about freeing yourself from the stuff that constrains you, not just getting rid of stuff.

  • http://zenhabits.net/ Leo Babauta

    Thanks for the kind words, David, and the thoughtful critique.

    Truth be told, I debate this stuff internally with myself all the time. Am I eliminating too much? On mnmlist, I wonder that, but then I ask myself: what's most important? What's the cost of eliminating things?

    I've made it hard to do anything other than read the content on mnmlist, on purpose: it's not important to me if people subscribe or do anything else. If they want to, they can read the about page and find out how to subscribe, but if they can't find it, it's not important (to me). I realize this might be discouraging to readers, but it's to drive home a point: forget about doing all the stuff you normally do on a site. Just focus on the content, because it's all that matters.

    That said, I still internally debate it, and might make changes to make it more “useable”. :)

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    I like the way you put that: “forget about doing all the stuff you normally do on a site. Just focus on the content, because it's all that matters.” That goes right back to the heart of minimalism, doesn't it? If that's what you believe is important (and I'm not sure I agree, but that's not the point), then you've done exactly the right thing.

    It also touches on the fact that you're clearly writing this stuff because it's important to you, another thing I think you do remarkably well that doesn't get replicated in a lot of places. You don't over-evangelize, or try to teach a way of being minimalist – you simply model how it can be done. Minimalism's not for anyone to teach someone how to do. It's a lifestyle, a thought process, and a road you point people toward and let them walk it themselves.

    Thanks again for your comments, I love getting your perspective on this stuff. We think differently in some ways, and I appreciate thoughtful and intelligent discussion. You're welcome here anytime :)

  • http://www.eleganttechnology.co.uk/ Steve

    Think about anything in life and ask these questions; “Can it be improved by addition?” or “Can it be improved by subtraction?”. At the point where the answer to these questions is no AND no is when you have reached the minimalist state. The key thing however is that it's the person asking the questions that determines the answer.

    Take the a user interface; if it's stripped of colour will this make it easier to use or worse? Will I be able to locate that essential button if it does not stand out?

    The term Minimalism has been hijacked by the Voluntary Poverty and Simplicity brigade and, although I read many blogs on the subject, I find I am frustrated with what they propose. They do provide some value in that they prompt discussion and challenge perception.

    I think the starting point should be “What is essential for me?” If I am buying an office chair “what is the most minimal I can live with in terms of design and function?”. If I do not need recline I can get a simpler chair.

  • http://www.LightTravels.com Carolyn Winter

    Hi David – this is my first visit here (via a subscription from Leo) and really really enjoyed your post. I have a few thoughts to share. The minimalist thing can be a calling of the ego of sorts as to how folks use it. However, I think the key word here is LIFE NEED.

    For the computer savvy learning all the tools, having all the tools and knowing what they can do provides those individuals with choices. However, if there are unmet social needs, and an ego is in the way there will either be a jump on the minimalist band wagon to look good in a social group or the complete opposite. All the bells and whistles will be on display if that is what makes an individual look good with the group they plug into for social acceptance, approval etc.

    Unmet social needs in the Maslow hierarchy, is what the world of advertising and commercialism feeds on. Minimalism may be its reactionary counterpart. It is only when we have reached a place of inner peace – that choices will be based on true functionality that meets a need. It’s not even a conversation starter. In the meantime, I am thankful that we at least, at this point in history have so many choices. Competing with our social needs is a life need for taking the time to learn – a need not well responded to with marketing.

    With choices at hand with every gizmo I buy, I do find that there is so much coming at me daily, that it is frequently tempting to get the gizmo and never ever learn half of the features. A toaster used to only just toast. Recently, I discovered my 8 year old toaster has a setting for bagels! I realized – I never took the time to read the instructions, or play with the toaster when it was new… I just launched into toast mode. What I realized is that I limited my choices, by not taking the time to learn what the tool can do. (and burnt many a bagel!) That was just the toaster… now I am wondering what else all my other appliances can do.

    The life need for learning I think most affects people not born attached to a computer. All the bells and whistles on the screen are making it next to impossible for the older group to learn what the tool is. I can’t tell you how many people I have personally coach on the difference between a url address bar and the Google search box! Trying to help someone learn the functionality of their email account is next to impossible when they have a Yahoo tool bar installed by a well meaning ‘computer guy’. I wish it were possible to have a system installed where tools and features could be added one at a time at the pace of learning or need of the individual forcing an individual to ask “I would like to do____. What tool do I have that can do this?” In these cases – I would lobby heartily for minimalism!

  • Chris

    Hmm, while I think you're right on some points, I have to say that I'm drawn to Apple due to their mix of design AND function. I have both Windows 7 and Mac OS X computers, and while Win7 is by far the best Windows ever (and pretty damn good in its own right), OS X is just the better experience to me. Faster, more stable, prettier, more useful and productive – to me at least. :)

  • http://zenhabits.net/2010/04/minimalism-rethunk/ minimalism, rethunk | Zen Habits

    [...] as discussed on minimalism and simplicity blogs, can also become a game of one-upsmanship — showing how little we have (it all fits in a backpack!), how far we’ve come (not only [...]

  • Cristina

    Well, there are people who, by sharing their great ideas, become famous. And there others who endeavor to become famous by criticizing or making fun of other people´s great ideas. Leo goes into the first category, and you, David, into the second.

    You have no sense of respect for your fellow bloggers and for all those people that were inspired by them.

    I am only one humble reader, but it is the first and the last time I am visiting this web site.

  • Ashton

    Dude, you come across as totally jealous of other bloggers. Take that Leo guy that you are “using as an example”. It's like you give a back handed compliment or something “I really like him but….”

    So what if people post and brag about how little they have. People can have a little healthy competition if they like to. Who cares man. Lets not get all super-sensitive about things like that. Lets just chill out, relax and be positive and encouraging.

  • http://www.getskinnybesuccessful.com/?p=745 Get Skinny and Be Successful

    [...] as discussed on minimalism and simplicity blogs, can also become a game of one-upsmanship — showing how little we have (it all fits in a backpack!), how far we’ve come (not only [...]

  • http://smashingmagazine.theresourcewebsite.com/2010/04/23/minimalism-rethunk/ minimalism, rethunk

    [...] as discussed on minimalism and simplicity blogs, can also become a game of one-upsmanship — showing how little we have (it all fits in a backpack!), how far we’ve come (not only [...]

  • scarlettestr

    I really liked this article but I was distracted by the negative tone. Is it just me or is this article kind of rant-ish?

  • http://bigswingface.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/the-minimalism-vs-lessism-discussion/ Some Resources: Minimalism vs Lessism Debate « Big Swing Face

    [...] me, it all started over at Digitized where David Pierce, in his post Minimalism vs. Lessism makes some good points about what he calls “lessism” and true minimalism and, for what [...]

  • http://www.thesimplerlife.net/ Sam Spurlin

    This article makes me think of Merlin Mann's transformation from productivity pr0n star to … whatever, far more useful form he has taken now. In personal productivity and now minimalism the focus is very easily shifted toward uselessness. Tools will only take you so far. I've never seen a hammer build a house by itself and I've never seen somebody credit the simple wallpaper adorning their desktop for writing their novel.

    Great post and thank you for writing it. I'm glad to see that Leo responded and that people have been receptive to your argument.

  • http://lastoftheromans.com Miguel Chavez

    How did he disparage Leo in any way? David pointed out (rightly) that many minimalists are falling into the same trap many consumerists fall into: instead of buying for the sake of buying, these minimalists get rid of their stuff solely for the sake of getting rid of them and earning “street cred” among fellow minimalists.

  • Ashton

    All this talk about minimalists getting rid of their stuff solely for the sake of getting rid of it is BS.
    Theres maybe 2-3 bloggers that you and David are basing your facts on.
    Most minimalists are genuine and getting rid of their possessions simply because they are unattached to them. Believe it or not, there are many of us (minimalists) that can actually live with under 50 items and its not about the “50 items”. But I guess some people wont understand that if they have different feelings about possessions.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    It's definitely a rant. But that's the first thing I said, right?

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    Here's the thing, Ashton, the point where we're missing each other. You say that people can live with under 50 items and it's not about the 50 items. I think that's awesome! But I think there are too many times where those messages – the idea that getting rid of possessions is about getting rid of things you're not attached to – get lost in the race to have the least stuff, the simplest desk, and the cleanest desktop.

    Those things are great, and they're great for a lot of people – but they don't need to be a race. Minimalism is about using the minimum that works for you, and becoming clutter-free in every sense of the word–but the practice of those ideas vary wildly, and should. Leo does a terrific job of modeling minimalism, but others take his numbers too seriously.

  • http://fitnesslifestylehealthclub.com/mental-health/zen/minimalism-rethunk/ minimalism, rethunk | Fitness Lifestyle Health Club

    [...] as discussed on minimalism and simplicity blogs, can also become a game of one-upsmanship — showing how little we have (it all fits in a backpack!), how far we’ve come (not only [...]

  • http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/lessism-over-minimalism/ Lessism over minimalism « Motho ke motho ka botho

    [...] I got a link in an e-mail the other day to digitizd.com, specifically to a post that talked about minimalism and lessism. I don’t read pop tech blogs — actually, come to think of it I don’t read blogs [...]

  • theeverydayminimalist

    To be clear, I am not using my 6 pieces of furniture as a badge of honour.

    It's just what we happen to own and like, and frankly, I find your “screw you” attitude, along the same lines of the pot calling the kettle black.

    You don't like it when people tell you “you should live with less”, but when people comfortably live with less, and just show what they have in their apartment as an example, but not as a statement, you take offense to that?

    I have never once said that ANYONE should follow in my (and others') methods of living.

    If you like so-called “useless” furniture, by all means, go for it. But I only want to keep what we can use, because we are mobile freelancers who move from city to city depending on contracts.

    Minimalism is subjective, and you're just taking it too personally from people who are living with a more extreme mindset.

    That being said, I own a lot of clothes, jewellery and things. But you don't see me getting mad at people who tell me to only own 100 or 500 items, now do you?

    Provocative rant for sure, but it felt slightly childish & whiny.

  • theeverydayminimalist

    I don't think that people are even bragging about how little they have.

    We're (in my mind) just showing how we can live happily and comfortably with less.

    If others can't do it or simply don't want to, then we're okay with that. No one wants anyone to do what they don't want to do, but if they're reading our blogs, then CLEARLY something we're writing, resonates with them.

    I couldn't do Leo's or Everett's challenge of living with just a backpack or less… I just couldn't.

    But in comparison to others, and in certain aspects, I might seem as extreme as them.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    First of all, I semi owe you an apology. I realized after writing the post that it might look like I'm attacking you personally, and I absolutely am not. I liked the post I linked to, and I like your blog, so I don't want you to think I'm making you the poster child of what I'm totally against. I'm not.

    But here's the thing. You say “You don't like it when people tell you “you should live with less”, but when people comfortably live with less, and just show what they have in their apartment as an example, but not as a statement, you take offense to that?”

    That's absolutely, 100% missing the mark of what I'm saying. If people are comfortably living with less, and showing what they have as an example, that's FANTASTIC. I'm all for that. The problem I have is that that's a slippery slope – it can easily become a competition, a “who's got less stuff?” game that ends up forcing us to remove actually useful things from our lives for the sake of having less stuff.

    You do a good job of what Leo does so well – being minimalist, and showing the world what works for you. My problem is not with you, for the most part: it's with people who read your blog, and go get rid of everything except 6 pieces of furniture because somehow 6 becomes a magic number. That so far misses the point of minimalism – having exactly what you need, and nothing more – and just makes me sad.

    I'm not knocking you or what you do, only wondering aloud why we allow ourselves to make “less” a competition, at the expense of actually being minimalists.

  • FrugalJuju

    ["Minimalism in computing is not about how your computer looks. It’s about how you use it — ensuring it has everything you need and nothing you don’t.”]

    I believe Chris Bowler contradicts your rant, especially if you concur with his statement.

    More specifically- “Minimalism is NOT about how it looks, but how you USE IT. ensuring it has everything you need and nothing you don’t.”

    Therefore, if someone ONLY uses a futon, computer, basic table, and other odds and ends- why should they purchase more furniture to suit YOUR lifestyle or what YOU deem to be “minimal enough”.

    I follow quite a bit of minimalist blog and have yet to encounter a “who can be more minimalist than whom” contest. The fact that you feel upset that someone can live with less things than you- shows it bothers you, but it's not the bloggers fault you feel this way.

    From all of your references in your posts, there are no proof of a “minimalist contest' going on and your negative connotations are all self induced. The bloggers don't make you feel that way- you are in charge of your own reactions. I'm just wondering where the basis of your rant came from? All of the blogs you link in your post SPECIFICALLY state that this is what works for them, and that they'd love to hear what works for you… pretty sure I missed the part where they TELL YOU TO DRINK THE MINIMALIST KOOLAID or you'll be kicked out of the cool club…which is how you make it out to be. I'd love for you to share the blogs that actually state this :)

  • FrugalJuju

    @David Pierce [The problem I have is that that's a slippery slope - it can easily become a competition, a "who's got less stuff?" game that ends up forcing us to remove actually useful things from our lives for the sake of having less stuff.]

    Who is holding the gun to your head and “FORCING” you to remove useful stuff? this competition is ALL in your head! its all about what works for the individual.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

    My point here is NOT, NOT, NOT that the standard for minimalism is wrong, or that people have less than me so I think they're wrong. The problem is that the standard doesn't make sense, that in reality it's a completely personal decision that is unique to every single person. That's what Chris said, that's what Leo says all the time, and that's what I said in no uncertain terms.

    There is no such thing as “minimal enough.” There's no right answer. There's nothing wrong with how you do it, or how I do it. The thing that's wrong is when we overprune, and I feel like people are warping the minimalist message to believe that the idea is to always keep pruning.

  • FrugalJuju

    I read the whole post- three times to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I never stated you think minimalism is wrong. I just feel your rant has no basis. All I was trying to say was that NONE of these blogs tell you to over prune ANYTHING. So I am just wondering where you got that idea that a “standard” exists.

    In your opinion, as you stated on your blog and comment, was that the problem lies in the MOST minimalist. That is has become a competition.

    IF you think blogging minimalists are pressuring others into getting rid of items, etc., I said I would love to read these posts…

    Although I understand you weren’t trying to “pick a fight” with other bloggers by using them as an example, but you kind of forfeited that right when you made the decision to reference ANY blogs; especially if you misconstrued a bloggers point. You might have picked a blog/blogs that actually supports your theory of competition, furthermore WHY do the blogs that you DID reference not mention a standard?

    I guess my frustration grows when you agree that minimalism is about finding exactly what you need and nothing more, but you seem to have a problem when people do not need much to live at all. Isn’t the point of what works for YOU, an opinion in itself?

    If you are a minimalist, you keep what works for you and you get rid of what doesn’t. Unless you are a sheep that follows the herd, you wouldn’t get rid of your toaster if you have toast every morning, but if you have a gluten allergy-you see no use for it. The standard is what YOU make it to be. If YOU make it to be a comparison what OTHERS have that’s on you…

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    We don't disagree at all. I'm not sure why it seems like we do.

  • brettstep1

    Great post. I do think Minimalism has some strong and valid points, but the game of who can own less is getting old.

    I do happen to have participated (and obsessed over) my own 100 thing challenge and do have an icon free desktop. But that is just because it is what works for me.

    For some families, just getting rid of a storage unit full of junk they don't use would be a positive minimalism action.

    As long as it means buying less junk, spending less money and living more sustainably then I will keep believing minimalism is important.

  • FrugalJuju

    ["Minimalism in computing is not about how your computer looks. It’s about how you use it — ensuring it has everything you need and nothing you don’t.”]

    I believe Chris Bowler contradicts your rant, especially if you concur with his statement.

    More specifically- “Minimalism is NOT about how it looks, but how you USE IT. ensuring it has everything you need and nothing you don’t.”

    Therefore, if someone ONLY uses a futon, computer, basic table, and other odds and ends- why should they purchase more furniture to suit YOUR lifestyle or what YOU deem to be “minimal enough”.

    I follow quite a bit of minimalist blog and have yet to encounter a “who can be more minimalist than whom” contest. The fact that you feel upset that someone can live with less things than you- shows it bothers you, but it's not the bloggers fault you feel this way.

    From all of your references in your posts, there are no proof of a “minimalist contest' going on and your negative connotations are all self induced. The bloggers don't make you feel that way- you are in charge of your own reactions. I'm just wondering where the basis of your rant came from? All of the blogs you link in your post SPECIFICALLY state that this is what works for them, and that they'd love to hear what works for you… pretty sure I missed the part where they TELL YOU TO DRINK THE MINIMALIST KOOLAID or you'll be kicked out of the cool club…which is how you make it out to be. I'd love for you to share the blogs that actually state this :)

  • FrugalJuju

    @David Pierce [The problem I have is that that's a slippery slope - it can easily become a competition, a "who's got less stuff?" game that ends up forcing us to remove actually useful things from our lives for the sake of having less stuff.]

    Who is holding the gun to your head and “FORCING” you to remove useful stuff? this competition is ALL in your head! its all about what works for the individual.

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

    My point here is NOT, NOT, NOT that the standard for minimalism is wrong, or that people have less than me so I think they're wrong. The problem is that the standard doesn't make sense, that in reality it's a completely personal decision that is unique to every single person. That's what Chris said, that's what Leo says all the time, and that's what I said in no uncertain terms.

    Also, I don't want to post blogs that are doing this, because I don't want to pick that fight. Most blogs don't, and I find that it's more often readers, Twitterers and commenters who lead themselves to believe that life will be more productive and fulfilling if they only own four things. That may well be true, but it's not the universal truth it gets painted to be.

    There is no such thing as “minimal enough.” There's no right answer. There's nothing wrong with how you do it, or how I do it. The thing that's wrong is when we overprune, and I feel like people are warping the minimalist message to believe that the idea is to always keep pruning.

  • FrugalJuju

    I read the whole post- three times to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I never stated you think minimalism is wrong. I just feel your rant has no basis. All I was trying to say was that NONE of these blogs tell you to over prune ANYTHING. So I am just wondering where you got that idea that a “standard” exists.

    In your opinion, as you stated on your blog and comment, was that the problem lies in the MOST minimalist. That is has become a competition.

    IF you think blogging minimalists are pressuring others into getting rid of items, etc., I said I would love to read these posts…

    Although I understand you weren’t trying to “pick a fight” with other bloggers by using them as an example, but you kind of forfeited that right when you made the decision to reference ANY blogs; especially if you misconstrued a bloggers point. You might have picked a blog/blogs that actually supports your theory of competition, furthermore WHY do the blogs that you DID reference not mention a standard?

    I guess my frustration grows when you agree that minimalism is about finding exactly what you need and nothing more, but you seem to have a problem when people do not need much to live at all. Isn’t the point of what works for YOU, an opinion in itself?

    If you are a minimalist, you keep what works for you and you get rid of what doesn’t. Unless you are a sheep that follows the herd, you wouldn’t get rid of your toaster if you have toast every morning, but if you have a gluten allergy-you see no use for it. The standard is what YOU make it to be. If YOU make it to be a comparison what OTHERS have that’s on you…

  • http://www.the20life.com David Pierce

    We don't disagree at all. I'm not sure why it seems like we do.

  • http://www.step1minimalist.com Brett

    Great post. I do think Minimalism has some strong and valid points, but the game of who can own less is getting old.

    I do happen to have participated (and obsessed over) my own 100 thing challenge and do have an icon free desktop. But that is just because it is what works for me.

    For some families, just getting rid of a storage unit full of junk they don't use would be a positive minimalism action.

    As long as it means buying less junk, spending less money and living more sustainably then I will keep believing minimalism is important.

  • http://notes.seanwhitton.com/2010/05/microblogging-weekly-2010-05-03.html Microblogging weekly: 2010-05-03 « Notes from the Library

    [...] article about a trend I've certainly tagged myself onto: http://www.digitizd.com/2010/03/04/minimalism-versus-lessism/ [...]

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    Rather actually! Someone
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  • http://scatterbrainadventures.blogspot.com Rae

    I agree with this.  The most important thing in minimalism, for me, is that I don’t get distracted against doing what’s most important to me.  It’s not about stripping away everything I don’t need.  If there’s something that keeps me from doing things that are more important. Or something that takes most of my time, that’s what I try to lessen or dispose of.

    I use microsoft word, and while it’s true that it has a lot of features that I don’t need, they don’t bother me. They’re not something that I have to clean up just so I can do my work. They don’t keep me from doing what I need to do.

    Microsoft word already comes in my desktop setup and it’s more waste of time for me to look for an application that only has features I need when I already have a word processer that works.

    Same goes for other digital items.  I will not dispose of my blackberry just because I adopted minimalism. It’s more wasteful to do that.  I already have a blackberry, and while it has a lot of features I don’t need, I won’t go around searching for a gadget that can do only what I need it to do and not anything else. I already have a phone, all I have to do is use it the way that works best for me.

  • http://aigendigitalmarketing.com Abel Pardo

    Minimalism is quite a sort of order, and in this way, it has a big competitor: to be tired. If people were more active, more productive, it would be much better, but reallity is that just for not activate the antivirus or remove something for the  folders, they doon’t do it.

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